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There's a new definition of "new!" Thanks, Liz!!!

Jennifer3141Jennifer3141 Posts: 3,161Member
@Liz Cadman

Hooray! There is now an official MSA definition of new. It's right on the page where new swap listings are created.



  • kylajaclynkylajaclyn Posts: 3,226Member
    @Jennifer3141 It's actually been up for a while, but it's easy to miss if you don't swap a lot. But I figured a lot of you would be happy!
  • Jennifer3141Jennifer3141 Posts: 3,161Member
    @kylajaclyn I've been out of the game for a little while, so I just saw it. I'm amazed that no one said anything before. This is huge!
  • kylajaclynkylajaclyn Posts: 3,226Member
    edited September 3
    @Jennifer3141 I guess because I'm one of the ones that isn't huge on having a definition about it. I don't think it needs to have a foil seal to be new, because I often open things automatically and then change my mind later. But I understand everyone needs clarity on that!
  • MiriamMiriam Posts: 1,826Member
    It's awesome that it's there in writing (Thank you Liz!) so that if there is an issue the person can be referred back there. Unfortunately I'm not sure that's going to have much of an affect on a person who puts their fingers in a makeup item and then calls it new, but a girl can dream. :)
  • MiriamMiriam Posts: 1,826Member
    @jamzilli I don't know if there is an official MSA stance on this anywhere but we've discussed it on the forums before. I agree with you that clothing and accessories can be tried on and still marked new (not underwear, though I'm not sure who is swapping underwear). I don't think those items being marked as used would deter anyone from wanting them so even though it's unnecessary it's probably not affecting swap requests.

    @JenniferL The idea is the same, clothing accessories etc. are tried on all the time in the store and still new but it's not about "who will know." Beauty items are used if they're opened because they start to age even if you just look at it, most beauty items have a 12 month expiration once opened (indicated by a little open jar and a number). So a person may think I didn't touch this I just opened it and who will know, but it does matter to the swapper.

    Or maybe it's about cooties :p
  • JenniferLJenniferL Posts: 472Member
    By definition, every single item on the swap site is pre-owned, right? If you've ever donated a sweater from Aunt Mabel to St. Vinny's with the tags still on, you know that "pre owned" doesn't always mean "heavily used," but the fact remains: every single thing you are swapping for belonged to someone else before it belonged to you. The extent of use is relevant, and should be disclosed, if the product or the packaging differ, in any observable way, from the original condition (including taking off plastic wrap, foil seals, removing tags, etc.). If the recipient would need to send the item to a lab to swatch for trace evidence in order to tell you'd plopped those sunglasses on your face once, that doesn't really change the condition, usability, or gift-ability of the item. That's as new as you're going to get without buying it new from the store.
  • flirtmdflirtmd Posts: 628Member
    Ok - I have a question if my bouncy mask up for swap is considered new. The box must have bounced (no pun intended) around quite a bit because the box was kind of beat up and smashed on one side. I opened the box to verify the jar was intact (which it was) but did not open the jar. Can I call it new?

    Just remember… "Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes."
  • elizabethjelizabethj Posts: 592Member
    @flirtmd I have a few things like that, where the outer box was damaged in shipping. I mark them as new but write "outer box is not in gift condition" in the description.

    I am not sure if there was a seal on the outer box of your item, but if you broke it you should mention that in the description as well. (I think there's a big difference between a product seal and an outer box seal. Breaking a product seal makes it used, breaking an outer box seal does not.)
  • mimiretzmimiretz Posts: 612Member
    @kaleigh89 I totally agree with you, especially if the makeup is powdered. I do disclose that I opened it to look, but didn't touch or in any way swatch, just looked. I have been told, however, that this does make it "used". People will buy makeup in a store that's been looked at in this way; I honestly don't see the difference, other than if you swap for it it's only been looked at by one person and you're usually swapping for something you want and for the cash cost of postage while in a store you're buying at full retail and you have no clue how many people have looked at it. Ah, the vagrancies of the human mind!
  • Jennifer3141Jennifer3141 Posts: 3,161Member
    edited September 3
    Apologies to @Liz Cadman for the lateness of my thanks. I have been off swapping for a little while and I've only just listing things again. I should have thanked you back in July. Sorry I missed that.
  • Tequila_DebTequila_Deb Posts: 912Member
    edited September 3
    So after many swaps under my belt (and almost every one of them GREAT! )

    Lately, it has been really different to look at some lists when they request from me, and they say "swatched on a clean hand" "swatched with clean finger" "tried one squirt and did not like it so it is still brand new" This has been more prominent than a year ago. I do not remember this being the case, but maybe it was and I just did not run in to this issue.

    That leads me now to asking questions often about seals, plastic wrapped around the outside of products and fully packaged items (ie: Red plastic Stephanie Townsend Plastic hand bag)

    Let me give you an example: I was swapping for several of the Stephanie red plastic bags for gifts to include in a beach tote and wanted them complete with packaging of course to show they are new. Well some came that way, but others came completely unwrapped, and the packaging gone including the tag to show the designer name. Bummer....I kept those two for my use as they were NEW but I needed to swap for more for gifts so they all looked brand new and the same. They all said NEW in the description, but I never thought to ask if everything was still intact like it came in the PS box.

    I often use items for gifts and would like them to be brand new for the receiving party. So when I request something from someone, I now ALWAYS ask about its packaging, and if its a boxed item to pretty please bubble wrap it, or put in a box to ship so it comes intact. I make sure my items go out the same I want them to come in, or I indicate the condition in the description. BUT I AM NOT PERFECT, nor do I expect anyone else to be perfect, just be as transparent as possible and we should all be happy right?

    Oh well...that is just me and like @Jennifer3141 I was thrilled to see the new description policy, but I do not begrudge anyone on the forum that swaps used items, there is a place with that as well, especially among friends that have gotten to know one another.

    Just my thoughts on the subject, and I too would like the can of gummie worms, I like the sour ones please, and thank you. :) ;)
  • KatieKatie Posts: 302Member
    @DLR at this rate, everyone on here will be getting sour gummy worms ;)
  • Love2323Love2323 Posts: 684Member
    @mimiretz thanks for the much needed laugh
    ID: 1481109015524778
  • Liz CadmanLiz Cadman Posts: 292Administrator

    Apologies to @Liz Cadman for the lateness of my thanks. I have been off swapping for a little while and I've only just listing things again. I should have thanked you back in July. Sorry I missed that.

    No need to apologize! We appreciate the thanks! :smile:
  • SusanDSusanD Posts: 204Member
    Clearly this new description about what is New or Used will cause many more items to be considered used. When I first started to me used meant exactly that .. I used it. If opened and looked at which you need to do to see colors properly sometimes but never touched I felt it was new. Now the opening up and expiration date makes sense. So yes if opened its now used. I think as long as we are all aware that this is the new rule and we disclose exactly why it was marked used than it's up to the swapper. Because now Used has different meanings.
  • AnnAnn Posts: 2,019Member
    Honestly, I don't even bother to list skincare or makeup anymore even though brand new and not swatched.

    I donate all that now. When I first joined MSA I would find it easy to swap that away and now it just sits and sits. I would rather a charity get some use out of it instead of having it expire in my swap bin. I guess things like full size Tatcha powder is different.

    What is interesting is that although it is hard to swap . . . there is more and more and more of it listed for swap. I wonder if people who sub only to beauty boxes are having a hard time swapping these days. Maybe it depends on the brands?
  • careybcareyb Posts: 1,368Member
    @Ann I have noticed a HUGE influx of beauty over the last few months myself. I have way too many items listed and good amount are in fact "beauty" in one way or another. I have been getting a bunch of single item requests over the last few weeks, for say an $8 hair spray which would be great if postage weren't so darn high. So I'd have to say yeah, my beauty hasn't been moving like it used to, even super 'luxe" stuff. I've been super duper generous though lately and have been including as many as I can as extra's in swaps. Irks me to have this stuff go to waste.

    I agree with @Jennifer3141 It is on the people swapping and listing to make sure each other is aware of the items' condition and any usage. This "change" wasn't meant to confuse or complicate people's swapping. :-)

  • mimiretzmimiretz Posts: 612Member
    @Jennifer3141 All of the actions you mentioned clearly make something used. The issue I have, however, is opening a palette to look at the colors. Nothing is altered, no seal is broken, no finger, swab or other utensil, tool or body part is dipped or swiped. Only eyeballs and air is passed over the colors. I'm talking solely about palettes with powdered makeup, nothing liquid, or semi-liquid or anything with any moisture at all - just powder. How does that make it used and, by extension, worth less than new (I've read up to 50% less)? And no, if I were to look - and again, just look, at a powdered eyeshadow, for example, in a retail store I would NOT be expected to buy it. It's expected that people are going to look at things and not buy them.
  • Jennifer3141Jennifer3141 Posts: 3,161Member
    edited September 4
    @mimiretz I don't remember ever arguing in any past thread that the situation you described means the item is no longer new, and I've certainly never advocated for a hard and fast RV adjustment in that or any other situation.

    Since you asked: My understanding of the definition is that it applies to things that have been altered from their original state. If no seal is broken and opening doesn't change the appearance of the item in any way (i.e. no one would be able to tell that it had been opened), shorten the expiration date, or expose it to infectious agents, then why would it be considered used?

    Also, since you sort of asked: It's my position that the person listing has the right to set whatever RV they want for their stuff, whether new or used. Everyone else has the right to agree or not, and swap or not. Negotiation during a swap concerning the value of an item is perfectly reasonable; bullying from either side is not.

    Here's a cookie picture I found, just for you. ;)

    Post edited by Jennifer3141 on
  • kaleigh89kaleigh89 Posts: 197Member
    @Jennifer3141 I think you're my favorite person on the forum right now! So nice, so reasonable, and such lovely cookies!!!
  • Jennifer3141Jennifer3141 Posts: 3,161Member
    @kaleigh89 Aw, thank you, but there are many, many nicer people on here than me.

    BTW, if that's you in your avatar picture, you were a lovely bride. In commemoration of that, here's a cookie picture just for you. They're polvorones, also known as Mexican wedding cookies, and they're very popular in my neck of the woods. They're made with ground up nuts (traditionally pecans, but I like the almond version better) and cinnamon and they're pretty darn good!

  • mimiretzmimiretz Posts: 612Member
    @Jennifer3141 Thanks for the cookies!!! But sadly, yes. The situation I described is very real. It happened early in my swapping life, certainly not by you or any of the wonderful ladies involved in the current discussion. I actually found it quite outrageous/humorous since I had been a professional costumer many years ago and knew many makeup artists who not only used opened makeup frequently but used it on several people and for as long as it lasted - depending on the color, sometimes years! Certainly more "used" than opening an eye shadow palette to see if the colors looked different than on a computer screen. Yet I don't recall any actors complaining. . .
  • kaleigh89kaleigh89 Posts: 197Member
    @Jennifer3141 That is me and thank you so much! And it's funny you posted those because my husband is actually half Mexican and half Czech, so we had Mexican wedding cookies at my bridal shower and fruit kolaches at my wedding reception :D

    Also you may get upstaged when someone else on the forum does something amazingly nice, but right now you're still my favorite :)

    @mimiretz I know! When I got my makeup professionally done for the first time for my wedding, they used makeup that had clearly been used on other clients before - NBD! I still paid her a ton lol.
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